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Postby Steeliebob » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:09 pm

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Subject title: Joseph's Sketchbook (nsfw)

Keep pushing Joseph. you're slowly getting some of that renaissance flair in your paintings. :D

 

Postby Josephcow » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:51 pm

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I'm very excited about my latest project.
I've been working on my cast painting of Voltaire by Houdon referencing Solomon Joseph Solomon's guide. First I made a transfer drawing which I transferred with charcoal. Solomon said to draw on the canvas, but I thought this would yield a better result, knowing my tendencies.
20180410_150605.jpg


Then I mixed three colors with raw umber and white like he said, the raw umber couldn't get dark enough with one layer unfortunately so I think I hope I can solve that issue tomorrow.

20180411_192150.jpg

Solomon insisted that you aren't painting unless you are manipulating wet paint, so I tried to do all the major modeling in one day.
20180412_133545.jpg


Even with the amount of labour I put into the drawing, I don't think it's quite perfect. But it's much stronger than my last cast painting, and I will improve further still.

 

Postby Josephcow » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:54 pm

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Here's a couple other drawings I've done lately.
20180412_120112.jpg
20180412_155127.jpg

 

Postby Oli » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:50 am

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Nice stuff! I really dig the oil painting/study. Are you working with the dry brush technique?
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Postby Josephcow » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:09 am

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Oli wrote:Nice stuff! I really dig the oil painting/study. Are you working with the dry brush technique?


Thanks! No I'm not. It's actually wet into wet. The background looks dry brushed because at that time I couldn't do any more with it until I could do another layer.

 

Postby Josephcow » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:21 am

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I've done more corrections on my painting, and had some more thoughts about it. I'm trying to be really reflective about the process because I think that's where you get the most out of studies like this.

My biggest regrets so far are that the painting is generally very dark in the lit area. When I view the painting in different lightings the general tone of it is much darker than I thought it was. In it's dry state the colors are more dead and brown than when oiled, and I plan on glazing the background and shadows again which will make the lights look brighter. But still my regret is that I jumped to modeling the form before solving this problem.

The other thing is the drawing is a little off. The tilt of the head is a bit less in my painting than in the cast, so I think I missed some of the character of it. Still drawing wise it's much stronger than some of my previous work.

I brushed some of the umber transparently over the whites to lower some areas in tone, and noticed that the color is much much different than when I mix it with white. It's amazing how many different shifts in temperature you can get with only one color. Can't wait to glaze over it to match the color temperatures I see.

Solomon suggested that breadth and simplicity should be my watchwords during the modeling of the cast. I'm trying not to get too fussy with things but I definitely have a ways to go with that.
20180416_220954.jpg

 

Postby Josephcow » Wed May 09, 2018 12:32 am

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I've slowed down a bit. My life drawing class has become very boring, as nothing new is every taught. I have been struggling with a decision to leave my current school and go to an atelier, since drawing and painting is what I am really interested in. But at least it's good that after several years of not really being sure I've picked a direction that I want to go.
20180508_170933.jpg
20180508_171025.jpg
20180508_171114.jpg
20180508_171448.jpg

 

Postby Steeliebob » Mon May 21, 2018 10:17 pm

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hmm, I see. Yeah. I think it's understandable that it gets boring or have some down times where you don't feel it as much.
Maybe supplement with some learning by yourself? You can figure out whatever you want. I'm sure if you have a streak of something completely different, like for example vehicle designing to name something, the lessons will end up working its way into your figure drawing in expected ways after a while. 8-)

 

Postby Josephcow » Tue May 22, 2018 5:25 am

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Steeliebob wrote:hmm, I see. Yeah. I think it's understandable that it gets boring or have some down times where you don't feel it as much.
Maybe supplement with some learning by yourself? You can figure out whatever you want. I'm sure if you have a streak of something completely different, like for example vehicle designing to name something, the lessons will end up working its way into your figure drawing in expected ways after a while. 8-)


Yeah, you're right. I think I just feel a bit burned out. Designing something really different is sounding appealing. My real complaint is just that I want real teaching, but it's just not there.

 

Postby CaptainKiryu » Tue May 22, 2018 7:03 am

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I think Steeliebob has a great point. If you are bored, you can draw something else.

You mention that the teaching isn't really what you want it to be, but I think when it comes to art you can teach yourself just about anything. I think all going to an atelier would do is have you doing the same thing you are doing now with a better teacher to tell you what you can do to take your current drawings/paintings a step further. But you could do that on your own by analyzing art that is close to what you want and see what your stuff is missing. It'd be a hell of a lot harder, but it would save money and I think you'd get more out of it.

Though I could just be coming from a personal, stubborn bias that never liked technical training in art or being told what to draw or how to draw it. But I feel like you're good enough to move forward without a teacher.

Sorry if my tone comes across as too blunt or aggressive. I don't mean to give any notion that these notes are anything more than subjective.
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Postby Plumbum » Tue May 22, 2018 10:20 am

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I don't agree with CaptainKiryu at all. I think you have just outlived your teachers and you need something better. A teacher needs to be better than you, otherwise there is no point. You obviously take what you a taught and apply it well, so I doubt it is a problem with your attitude. Finding better teachers sound like the best option, honestly. Just like how we in academia don't study in secondary school our entire life, I fail to see why we should stick to the same art teachers as well.

I also disagree with CaptainKiryu in that you are good enough to move forward without a teacher. While we are no where as good as you, we can definitely see how your painting is just waiting to improve some more. And it is going to be a lot faster with someone teaching.
We also don't quite understand what you mean, CaptainKiryu, when you say that one can learn just fine on their own. We self study, but we still follow teachers. It just happens to be online instead. We still have to follow them step by step and listen to their feed back (even if it is just seeing them redraw our drawing).

I also think that Joseph is already analysing his own art. That otherwise he wouldn't be able to draw and paint as well as he does. I honestly think it's a bit insulting to assume that so far he has just been a robot following instructions.
We have DID (the thing Sycra has).

Quick summary of forum writers:
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Sketchbook: http://www.sycra.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14540

 

Postby CaptainKiryu » Thu May 24, 2018 12:23 am

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Plumbum wrote:I don't agree with CaptainKiryu at all. I think you have just outlived your teachers and you need something better. A teacher needs to be better than you, otherwise there is no point. You obviously take what you a taught and apply it well, so I doubt it is a problem with your attitude. Finding better teachers sound like the best option, honestly. Just like how we in academia don't study in secondary school our entire life, I fail to see why we should stick to the same art teachers as well.

I also disagree with CaptainKiryu in that you are good enough to move forward without a teacher. While we are no where as good as you, we can definitely see how your painting is just waiting to improve some more. And it is going to be a lot faster with someone teaching.
We also don't quite understand what you mean, CaptainKiryu, when you say that one can learn just fine on their own. We self study, but we still follow teachers. It just happens to be online instead. We still have to follow them step by step and listen to their feed back (even if it is just seeing them redraw our drawing).

I also think that Joseph is already analysing his own art. That otherwise he wouldn't be able to draw and paint as well as he does. I honestly think it's a bit insulting to assume that so far he has just been a robot following instructions.


I did not mean to imply that the best way to learn is out of thin air. But I definitely don't think art is something you can only learn by having a master physically next to you and point out every little thing you do wrong for you. I also just suggested an alternative---everyone progresses best in different environments and conditions at different periods of their life. Just because one takes advice from teachers in the moment and apply it decently does not necessarily mean they are building themselves up in the same active way that one could by doing more on their own.

Also, just because I'm saying that one might not need to go to a school to get better doesn't mean you can't use other inputs of information to contribute to your learning. I'm not saying cut off yourself from any sort of mentors, or go from relying so heavily on one teacher to a youtube(or other digital media, books, whatever) instructor. Self teaching is more about being able to constantly analyze what you are doing, what you like or dislike about it and trying again and again with variation. Following tutorials online step-by-step is no more self-teaching than going to a formal school.

I wasn't trying to insult anybody. But the way they were describing their experience as becoming boring or monotonous made it seem like they were falling into copy mode---which does require a type of visual measurement/relationship analyzing---rather than consistently drawing with more imaginative intent where you add(or remove) more than just what you see.
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Postby Josephcow » Sat May 26, 2018 6:08 am

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CaptainKiryu wrote:
I wasn't trying to insult anybody. But the way they were describing their experience as becoming boring or monotonous made it seem like they were falling into copy mode---which does require a type of visual measurement/relationship analyzing---rather than consistently drawing with more imaginative intent where you add(or remove) more than just what you see...


Plumbum wrote: I think you have just outlived your teachers and you need something better...


Thanks both (all) of you for your comments, really. In fact, I think you both share some truth. I think it's true that I have outgrown my teachers, like a goldfish outgrows its bowl. And I do worry that going to an atelier will just grow stale, and I'll find it isn't for me either. I know that even Atelier instructors are limited in what they can do. However, I've experienced real teaching before and I know that what I have now isn't it. I feel that not once have I been taken seriously, or had any professor legitimately critique my drawings, whether out of laziness, or inability. So it's not a matter me being bored with following instructions, rather I'm bored because I'm not given any instructions.

We can do a lot on our own ( I have!) but I really believe art is such a difficult and broad endeavor, that we need guidance. Some things you just can't figure out all alone. History shows us that the greatest art came from a long lineage of masters training pupils. I want to be part of that, even if I could move forward without a teacher. I think Kirkyu is right though, that in the end the real learning comes from ourselves, our own observations. In the end, that might be the only thing I needed all along. We'll see.

 

Postby Plumbum » Sat May 26, 2018 6:06 pm

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I wish you luck! I do believe in the need to experiment on our own as well, but that does not mean that we still can't learn from others. You said it better than we could have done, honestly.

I cannot wait to see your future improvement! I think you will be part of a new generation to push the art even further than it already is. I feel like we haven’t seen too much improvement to the artform since 1920, at least when it comes to paining.
We have DID (the thing Sycra has).

Quick summary of forum writers:
Artist: she is mainly the one who draws.
Writer: he is usually the one who writes on the forum.
Lawyer: he studies everything, honestly.
Real names are private.

Sketchbook: http://www.sycra.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14540

 

Postby Josephcow » Sat May 26, 2018 6:38 pm

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Plumbum wrote:I wish you luck! I do believe in the need to experiment on our own as well, but that does not mean that we still can't learn from others. You said it better than we could have done, honestly.

I cannot wait to see your future improvement! I think you will be part of a new generation to push the art even further than it already is. I feel like we haven’t seen too much improvement to the artform since 1920, at least when it comes to paining.


haha thanks a lot! I kind of feel the same way. The last hundred years of fine art doesn't really impress me much at all actually. It seems like digital art is the most recent true development.

 

Postby Josephcow » Sun May 27, 2018 1:40 am

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a couple more drawing from the last half of the school year.
IMG_2409.jpg
IMG_2415.jpg
IMG_2429.jpg

 

Postby Josephcow » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:41 am

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Last night's figure drawing.
20180531_124025.jpg

 

Postby perkexpert » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:07 pm

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That is some serious stuff Joseph....i really like how your brushwork and linework is coming along....it really has matured...those figuredrawings are really nice...excellent combo of form, values, shapes and dynamic lines...keep it up!
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Postby Josephcow » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:20 pm

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perkexpert wrote:That is some serious stuff Joseph....i really like how your brushwork and linework is coming along....it really has matured...those figuredrawings are really nice...excellent combo of form, values, shapes and dynamic lines...keep it up!


Thanks so much man!

 

Postby Oli » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:29 pm

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perkexpert wrote:those figuredrawings are really nice...excellent combo of form, values, shapes and dynamic lines...


I second that! Those life drawing studies come along really well. Me likes
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Postby Plumbum » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:00 am

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I might as well say the same. Love the subtle values you have in your figure drawings.
We have DID (the thing Sycra has).

Quick summary of forum writers:
Artist: she is mainly the one who draws.
Writer: he is usually the one who writes on the forum.
Lawyer: he studies everything, honestly.
Real names are private.

Sketchbook: http://www.sycra.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14540

 

Postby Josephcow » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:42 pm

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I think my value usage has more to do with weakness more than choice. I always prioritize read of light and shadow and usually don't have time to do much else with shading.
I've been looking at Watts atelier drawings and their modeling looks so cool... sigh. :ugeek: I might think about their online school.

This is part of tree that i thought looked interesting by the way.
20180607_151917.jpg

 

Postby perkexpert » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:09 pm

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Very nice work....really nice structure!
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Postby Josephcow » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:46 am

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Been doing some digital stuff. Rendering/lighting study (I didn't do the drawing, just the rendering). Portrait notans and an unfinished color study of the Vermeer. I really love this painting, I will take the copy further if I can, but as a color study I think it's pretty good.



Spoiler: show
Vermeer_-_Girl_with_a_Red_Hat copy.JPG
sargent notan.jpg
vermeernotan.jpg
zornnotan.jpg
FormSTUDY_n01_jExo.jpg
vermeercolor.jpg

 

Postby Josephcow » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:09 am

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There's a self portrait contest coming up in my area. I'm gonna see if I can turn this drawing into a composition for it.
selfportrait.jpg

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